When you spend time in-house, it makes you a better lawyer: Everstone Group General Counsel Pratibha Jain

Pratibha Jain is Group General Counsel of Everstone Group. .In this interview with Bar & Bench's Pallavi Saluja, Jain speaks about her journey from Delhi University to Oxford to Harvard and her experience working with international law firms and as in-house counsel at Goldman Sachs and Everstone Group.Jain also speaks about the evolving role of General Counsel, how much legal work at Everstone is outsourced, the opening up of the Indian legal market and more..[Watch Interview].Edited excerpts follow..Pallavi Saluja (PS): Tell us about your early years. How did you end up studying law?.Pratibha Jain (PJ): I am a first generation lawyer. Everyone in my family is into business. I am the first person in my family to get a Master's. Everybody talks about manifestation these days and I truly believe that I manifested studying at Harvard, which was basically the start of everything…...In our generation, there was no corporate law. While in law school, I was interning with Khaitan & Co, which was a litigation firm back then. I had not thought of having a corporate practice, but I knew I liked corporate law. I got a diploma in corporate law from Indian Law Institute in the second year of my law school. I enjoyed doing corporate law. It’s very important for us to do what we enjoy no matter what others say in terms of where better careers are, where better money is.After graduating, I did a BCL at Oxford University and an LL.M. at Harvard Law School. Right out of Harvard, I got my placement at Sullivan & Cromwell in New York. I started my journey with the firm in New York, then moved to Tokyo, and later to Hong Kong. From there, I moved to Skadden Arps since they had a better India practice, and I wanted to find a way to get back home. Then I finally moved to Goldman Sachs - that was my first stint as a General Counsel. I was hired to head legal for Goldman Sachs India when it opened its office in 2007, and that’s how I came back to India..PS: Then you started with Nishith Desai Associates, moving back to a law firm. How did that happen?.PJ: After getting into Goldman Sachs, I thought that’s where the rest of my career would be, because I loved how they operated. Then my husband moved to Delhi to set up Jindal Global University. After two-and-a-half years of staying in Bombay at Goldman Sachs, with two little kids, I finally chose family over career, and moved to Delhi… Nishith Desai and I knew each other. When he visited my house, he mentioned that I had ample space at home and suggested I start the Nishith Desai Associates Delhi office there. When I left NDA, I had 20 lawyers working from my house. I am very thankful to Nishith Desai for that opportunity. He had the foresight to recognise my talent and potential, rather than focusing on where I could work. Having the flexibility of people coming to my house rather than me having to go to the office helped me create a wonderful office for NDA. So, it was great for the firm and it was great for me…It’s the vision that managing partners have of giving women that freedom and I have seen it multiple times at NDA, when women are given that opportunity and flexibility to manage their career and family life. You get a much better output when you’re not forcing people to come to work, especially in the corporate legal field, where you can operate from any place..PS: And how did Everstone happen?.I believe that when you spend time in-house, it makes you a better lawyer.Pratibha Jain.PJ: Everstone happened due to COVID. They came to me when their previous General Counsel had quit, and they were literally my first client when I had started private practice. I knew the co-founders very well, so it seemed like an easy transition. I believe that when you spend time in-house, it makes you a better lawyer. Having that exposure, understanding what the client needs and the way you deliver it to them - these are all things you get...With a group like Everstone, which is very diverse, the variety of work has increased, so it’s fantastic.My team at Everstone is 20+. What’s interesting is that I don’t have to hire people. I have all the law firm talent to pick and choose from. I have great friends across the practices, so whenever I get stuck in terms of resources, I just have to pick up the phone and call and they’ll give me somebody that I can use for that particular project, or just simply outsource it fully to law firms. I really do believe my job is managing risk for the company, and finding the right people for the work rather than building a big practice….PS: When you talk about projects, how much of it is done in-house and how much is outsourced?.PJ: In our setup, because we are doing mostly deals and less litigation, the majority is outsourced. Our job is to be the bridge between the law firms and the business folks, and it’s a very important job. Our work is managing risk and also managing what sort of output is coming out of various arms within Everstone and how we are synergising the legal practice across the group. .PS: What are the characteristics you look for in a law firm or lawyer when giving out work?.How a particular law firm views us as a client, the priority that they give us as a client, is just as important as their talent.Pratibha Jain.PB: It varies depending on what we need. Of course, we try to find the best lawyer for the particular transaction, but personal relationships also matter a lot. How a particular law firm views us as a client, the priority that they give us as a client, is just as important as their talent. You need lawyers who understand your needs, how to manage your risk and when to bring you in as a GC. So my job is to, hire the firm and remind them that wherever they see a reputational risk or a significant monetary risk, they need to come back and loop me in…Sometimes you don’t have that when you’re starting, but the good lawyers know when to loop in the GC. Lawyers who do that are on top of the list..PS: How has your experience been working with Indian law firms and international law firms? Do you think they are on par?.PB: The talent is definitely at par. What we are missing is exposure. Unfortunately, our current setup means we have yet to open up the market…A lot of partners have international experience, and they are on par with everybody else. We are not giving our associates that exposure. They excel in Indian law and deal-making, work diligently, but may lack in areas like project management, client management and collaborating with multiple law firms globally. We should be able to give that international exposure to our young lawyers. The Bar Council of India (BCI) and the legal fraternity must find a way to strike a balance between protecting our market and providing young lawyers with the necessary exposure..PS: What are your views on the opening up of the Indian legal market?.Not every international firm is eager to enter this market.Pratibha Jain.PB: You won’t see the foreign firms rushing into the Indian market. It’s a very different market. Not every international firm is eager to enter this market. We just don’t have that depth and they know that Indian law firms are very well entrenched. So, I don’t think it’s going to be a tsunami change, but there might be more associates training abroad, and in that sense, the exposure the Indian lawyers will get is what I am interested in. From my perspective as a General Counsel, it’s necessary for the markets to open up, but I don’t think it’s necessary for the growth of the lawyers here. .PS: How much AI and legal tech is the legal department of Everstone using?.PB: It's something we are very excited about because we believe that costs will reduce significantly, especially for M&A deals. Diligence should be less heavy with regard to the hours that lawyers need to put in; the first round of document creation should be cheaper.I still need the law firms for negotiations and drafting after the first draft. However, I’m really looking forward to the synergies that legal tech and AI will bring across the groups, enabling me to manage documentation more effectively. We’ve already started.We are buying an AI firm, so I decided to do all the documentation of that through AI. The first level of due diligence, the first level of document, I did it myself, through AI, and that was very exciting for me. Of course, it needed changes because we weren’t using specialised tools and we haven’t bought any. We are pushing the law firms, we are asking them, “Are you using AI? What is the cost saving because you are using AI?”.PS: Tell us what your average day is like..PB: There’s no average day. Everyday is different and that’s what is so exciting about being a General Counsel. Usually, there’s some emergency somewhere or the other and that’s always the priority...Right now we are expanding tremendously, so working on that becomes the priority rather than deal-making. Once in a while, I get into the depth of deal making and litigation. Litigation is where I learn what mistakes we are making on the existing deals and that learning is extremely important to then build it into the deals that we are doing across the group. So for me, getting involved in litigation and regulatory issues is very important. That’s how we learn and fix our mistakes. Deal-making is important to learn how lawyers are dealing with the issues and what’s in the market. So there’s never a standard day, there’s never a dull day, and I love it.